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Offline 000knight

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No more google maps
« on: February 15, 2012, 09:43:04 AM »
Hello

GC seem to have updated the maps and don't seem to be using Google maps.

Just wondering if anyone knows why, and what's your view on the new maps page?
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Offline Spire67

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 09:44:26 AM »
The colours seem to make the features more distinct.  Not tried using them yet. But no satellite map is definitely a negative.

No change to the iphone app so it still uses the old maps - street topographic and satellite.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 12:48:38 PM by Spire67 »
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Offline geoibsons

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2012, 10:02:29 AM »
It's a cost thing unfortunately. Google wanted to start charging companies that used them a lot. GC would have ended up paying thousands a day so they've stepped away from google. Shame really as it was good and very useful.

I suspect the old maps will disappear off the iphone app once there's a new app update?

Offline stainless-steel-rat

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2012, 10:10:21 AM »
Quote from: GS
A few months ago, Google announced a change to its Maps API licensing structure that requires third-party websites with over 25,000 map loads per day to pay for use of the API. (Visit Google for more details on their pricing structure.) According to Google the new limits should affect only around .35% of maps consumers. Geocaching.com averages well over 2,000,000 hits to Google per day, placing us firmly within that small percentage of affected consumers.

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Offline JustAlan

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2012, 12:22:13 PM »
I don't mind OpenStreetMap, I just want the satellite view back (and working)
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Offline Spire67

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 12:50:08 PM »
I would be happy to pay a modest fee to have access to the satellite map.  It is very useful on occasions.  Can still use it by plugging the coords into google but its a bit of a pain
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Offline Dakar4x4

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 02:37:46 PM »
GSAK allows easy access to Google maps, either directly from GSAK or via one of the export macros.

Jon.

Offline JustAlan

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 08:10:34 PM »
True. But GSAK only shows the currently selected cache on the satellite view. I like to see the surrounding/series ones on the satellite view at the same time.
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Offline Bobbinz

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 08:33:26 PM »
There is the GME macro for that...

Offline Bobbinz

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Offline stainless-steel-rat

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2012, 11:58:28 PM »
All the work arounds in the world cant cover the fact that they have removed a feature that we all considered part of the membership, paying members are the ones that feel it the most since we support the site with our money.

The fact that they did this with no notice and as part of an update with rel notes just goes to show how they feel about their customers, I have a funny feeling that this has been on the cards for a while now, and that makes it even worse the fact that they want to run things on the cheap but charge for the service gets my goat.

The online world today is driven by partnerships with companies working together to make a better product and also make money, since GC relies (or used too) on google maps a deal could have been worked out that was good for both parties, but no GC has gone for the cheap option resulting in a degradation of service to it members.

I cant see GC going back to google maps even for PM since even with them not saying how many ppl pay for the service they must have done the maths and worked out that the number of PM's is high and would cost them to much in their view and then we would have all known how much money they were getting from us per year and thus felt like we were being ripped off.

GC is a closed system not wanting innovation of any form but its own, look at C:Geo it lets (used to) none PM's download cache data, most apps limit this download to a few caches and forces players of this game to buy PM just to find more than 3 caches a day!

It feels to me that that the ppl that run GC are just after the money in short term and know full well that sooner rather than later someone will come up with a better system and they are racing to kill the Goose that laid the golden eggs b4 anyone else can catch up.

Before anyone asks yes if a script comes up in the next few days to "fix" GC.com i'll use it.
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Offline The Tares Clan

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2012, 08:42:44 AM »
Whilst I agree with SSR in regards to the way in which GS removed the google maps was wrong, I honestly believe that they had no choice.

If they have approx 2,000,000 hits a day on the Google Map servers, they will have to pay Google a significant amount of money each day which hits their bottom line.  Even if they manage to get a very preferentail rate from Google, it still costs a lot of money a day.  Standard rate is $4 per 1,000 click - if GS got it for $1 per 1000, they would still be $2000 a day or $730,000 a year!  That is a lot for any business to just spend on users just because they want to and assuming they can afford it.

The only benefit regarding maps which is "guaranteed" by GS when purchasing premium is

Use the map view filters to see only the types of geocaches that appeal to you or to remove your hides and finds.

So two days ago, a Premium and a non-premium member saw exactly the same maps. The Premium member had the extra option to hide/show caches based on their type.

Now, a Premium and a non-premium member see exactly the same maps. The Premium member has the extra option to hide/show caches based on their type.

Ergo, nothing has changed ;) and no degradation of service in a legal sense.

Access to Google Maps was via a Beta maps program and as such GS could/did remove any functionality that did not work or was too costly - exactly the same as any software/service supplier does.  They look at their business case and do the maths - it is a cost/price/value issue.

End users can still use Google Maps via the google Maps page or Google Earth.  Yes it may be a bit more convoluted but it works.

GS will not release how many people purchase a premium as that is internal business information as a privately owned company, they do not need to do it.  However, this could be a smart move on GS - they know that if they just left the google maps and put the price up, people would have screamed.  They have had remove the Google maps due to Google licencing model.  If they can come to some agreement with Google, they can then put up the price of Premium and a lot of people will pay it (if they do not know workaround!)

C:Geo broke the T&Cs of GC.com and use a lot of bandwidth that GS have to pay for (and bandwidth costs).  The cost of their bandwidth will probably be far more than the cost of any cost of now using Google maps.  If applications such as c:geo (and there are plenty of others) did not screen scrape, it may be that this may never have happened a GS could have swallowed the costs.  It is extremely difficult for GS to code a way to stop screen scraping and it will always go on.  Why should I and every other premium member subsidise those that do not want to pay and use "illegal" methods of getting the information ?  One of the benefits you pay for with premium is more than 3 caches a day.

BTW, there is a script that already puts the Google maps and satellite back onto the new maps but I am not going to post it here in case it is seen a breach of my premium terms and conditions !

I realise that the words above may not meet with everyones pleasure (and I have my flame retardant suit on ;)) but unfortunately, this has been caused by a change in Google's T&Cs and not GS's.  People should not lobby GS to change things as they can only purchase a service at a certain price and Google have very deep pockets to sue if required.

I am also concerned that the OSM maps may not last that long.  I realise that the default is not OSM but a lot of people will use it and I believe that GS is in breach of the OSM T&Cs.  Yes they say that they will stand up their own tile server but taking the GS development cycle into account, this could be some time off and it will also cost them a lot more than just the server(s) for the tile server - thee is the additional bandwidth that they will now host that is currently being pushed from your PC to Mapquest/OSM and previously Google.

Offline JustAlan

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 08:56:53 AM »
http://gsak.net/board/index.php?s=1299c47713f08a7f6f45049d8ea1e057&showtopic=17505&st=0&#entry155762

Thanks Adam, but that only works for caches in your GSAK database. I need to be looking at areas where I don't have the caches in the database.
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Offline frosty68

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2012, 09:18:30 AM »
hurray, the things people do while I'm sleeping :D
Google maps + satellite  back where they belong :)

Pretty sure posting a link to the script can't breach any terms, the call to the google API will be made from your computer/IP so as an individual, not from groundspeak as a business.
But, so be "safe" I also won't post a link here, I would suggest anyone who wants them to install greasemonkey (on firefox) and google the following term Google maps + Amapy.cz for GC.com new map

Offline OMUK

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Re: No more google maps
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2012, 10:07:27 AM »
hurray, the things people do while I'm sleeping :D
Google maps + satellite  back where they belong :)

Pretty sure posting a link to the script can't breach any terms, the call to the google API will be made from your computer/IP so as an individual, not from groundspeak as a business.
But, so be "safe" I also won't post a link here, I would suggest anyone who wants them to install greasemonkey (on firefox) and google the following term Google maps + Amapy.cz for GC.com new map

Ahh, that's better!

Now all I need is the OS maps!

Seems to work well.